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"Rzeczpospolita'weekly"
05/10/02.
A
CONVERSATION WITH WłODZIMIERZ STANIEWSKI
"Theater
of gesture"
Theater of Gardzienice can be traced back to…a fall. You mentioned
in a conversation a few years back, how you fell of a motorcycle
whilst hitting a patch of sand, in laughter of men who had gathered
in front of the local store. Is it their reaction which made you
stop here, in this place, for what was to be now a quarter of a
century?
- If we want to build a legend, then I can
say that the reason was that the sun had burned my wings. I speak
of course of 'Ikarze' - the beauty imagined by Breugh, when the
distant comes in contact with the grandeur of the earth. I too came
face to face with him, in sorrow, in despair of the existential
Polish reserve of the east. This was a strong hit in the heart and
in the head. Yes, this is an authentic story. My friend from the
'Theater 6' in Lublin - belonged to a group of people, who invited
me there - he drove me from Lublin on a motorcycle mark 'Komar'.
I sat sideways, in the back, on a metal frame. For over two years
I wondered along the 'eastern wall', in search for an appropriate
place to work: at times in 'Sejnenszczylzna', at times in 'Podlasie',
and at times back in the west. Someone suggested this place to us,
they mentioned that it might be appropriate for a summer workshop.
And it is true we did come off the bike, in front of the 'milk bar',
and the peasants grinned and laughed, like the 'Zaporozcy' from
a 'Riepina' painting. For me, a traveler from the west of Poland,
everything there reminded me of the Far East. From the 'Krakowska
Gate' in Lublin, which looked like the entrance to a minaret, to
the view from the foot of street Grodzka, because then there were
still no new suburbs. In front of your eyes the land unfolded like
the 'akermans'(steppes). The legend has it that, not long ago there
stood an ancient oak, under which Polish King Boleslaus the Brave
slept. In a dream he saw the approaching Tartars invading this land.
From this vision he was able to gather his forces and save the gates
of Christianity. In my mind's eyes I could see the approaching Mongolian
faces amongst these hills.
The next performance of Gardzienice prepared by you is "Scenes
from Electra" based on Euripides. Previous, "Metamorphoses"
based on Apuleius, inspired the reconstruction of Ancient Greek
music. Which - as you put it - 'constellation' was a result of your
work on the most recent text?
- 'Constellation' for me is an important term.
Above all, it identifies a respective group of people. I have always
been against the idea of talking about an ensemble, which is part
of contemporary theater tradition, as something sacred. For it to
exist, you need an ensemble. I have always stressed, that something
like an ensemble has not and will not exist. An ensemble is a burden,
a romantic and ambivalent term. You can hire people, set roles and
have a team linked by a similar interest, which does not change
the fact, that what the group stands for is less clear. In order
to make a performance, you need the right constellation of people,
in which a correct chemistry can be formed - an exchange of thoughts
and feelings heading towards a common direction. This is why new
works for us are so rare. A human constellation creates a certain
duty, which is derived from a correct reading of the theater art
through its signs gestures -. For the past two years I have worked
on this with the young people of our Academy of Theater Practices.
They were joined by some of the actors who saw a new perspective
in this work. There is documentation, which says that in the ancient
Greek drama, beside the layer of the word and music, there was a
layer of gesture. This was not simply a reactment of the action,
but an entire alphabet of gesture, allowing for complicated text
to be handed without the use of words or music. A gesture has become
the new stage in our search, outside of music, so crucial in 'Metamorphoses'.
I asked Maciej Rychły to search for music from between the 2nd c.
BC to the 2nd c.AD. We moved even deeper, reaching to the times
of Euripides - to the relics of music, only limited fragments of
which survived on 'papyruses' and stones. With all my energy and
responsibility I am concentrating on a gesture.
Apart
from working on the fragments from 'Forefathers' by Mickiewicz you
have not relied on a dramatic text so much. At what stage in your
work did it become evident that your new performance was going to
be based on 'Electra'?
- At the beginning I wanted to make a performance
about Euripides himself and the despair of a creative process. About
a loner, who inherited the grotto from his father in Salamine and
collected there one of the richest libraries of the times. He used
to sit at the entrance to the cave, looking out at the sea meditating.
He would cross the streets of the 'popilis', listening in to the
live debates of the members of various schools, in particular the
philosophers tables. He hardly ever penetrated the secrets of the
nature of a woman. At times he wandered outside of the city. His
end was as fascinating as sad. Invited to the palace of the Macedonian
prince, walking up its steps, he was torn to pieces by wild dogs.
I meditated on a biography of Euripides, considering a possibility
of including some fragments from his works, in particular 'Electra',
'Iphigenia' and 'Orestes'. In the end I made a decision, thinking
that a manipulation of the dramatic text was quite risky and it
would be better to concentrate on one of them, 'Electra', which
has all required references - The secret of female nature and the
secret of the tuning of the murderous spiral. Similar to what is
happening today, what we see in the news on television, of the things
we read in the press - of the demons which seem uncontrollable,
demons that erupt unprecedented and condemn us, people, to do horrid
things. There is also a mention of the difficulty in the creative
process. I have tried to overcome this. It is a hopeless fight,
one which can end in a total catastrophe. What will remain may be
just the work on gestures.
Your
alphabet of gestures numbers about 160 positions. Are they all original,
taken from the ancient Greeks?
- You always need to relay upon fixed points
written into culture, because over-experimentation leads to uncertainty.
We hold on to images from vases and sculptures. In 'Metamorphoses'
this was only a signifier, a demonstration of work, which was undertaken
after the initial performance, standing in for the preparation on
Euripides. At large they are signs - positions of the body, movements
of hands and shoulders - in which you can find appropriate reference
to actual paintings. It is, where the effect is born out of the
exertion of the actor and the strength of the gesture, that we lock
in the picture. And we have ones, which in sculptures and paintings
of the ancient Greeks, do not hold an analogy. I leave this particular
gesture to the actor, in the belief that it once did exist, since
it contains such a strong image. There are examples proving, that
in archaic traditions there where storytellers who, with a help
of gestures, were telling their stories. We have interesting documents
related to it, in particular Lucian in his piece on the art of dance.
There are different canons illustrating a history of gesture. My
interest focuses on its early stage, in which a particular formation
of the arms, body, head and torso captures its particular state,
not any other emotion. In the performance there are two particular
techniques: the appropriation to the spoken word and the holding
of the moment - like the famous sculpture of the Laokoon group -
in that moment of stillness.
In
your theater expeditions, some afar and exotic, did you come across
this technique of gestures, which now stands for so much in your
most recent performance?
- One of the more interesting experiences
happened in the 80s with the Zuni Indians. I asked a leader of their
ritual rain dance group to sing one of their songs for me. He said
that his grandson would do it instead. He whispered a few words
to him, and the grandson responded with gestures. In 'mnemotechnique',
in other words, technique of memorizing, you also adopt an acute
alphabet of gestures, within which words are entwined. In oral traditions
it allowed for the passing of the word through the remembrance of
gesture. I believe, that within archaic and folk tradition it functioned
- more so than the remembrance of melody and tone - as a vehicle
for layering of words from one generation to another. You not only
learned the recital, but the content of a gesture, written in with
words. This tradition functions in many cultures, not only in the
tribes of the North American Indians. In the South of Italy people
who sing often perform a set of gestures. As if to produce words
not only for ears, but also for eyes.
Of
all the Europeans, the Italians are people using most vivid gestures
and expression. All the performances in Gardzienice feature a high
level of expression. This can be attributed to the character of
the actors and you as a director. Do you think - holding on to this
idea of gesture - that in the Ancient Greece expression was so vivid?
- We know for certain that such scenic poetry did exist, in which
gestures functioned as sort of pantomime and an autonomous center
of attention. On the other hand, whether it served on the side of
a spoken word, this is a great question. I will take a risk, and
say that it did. That the continuity of a spoken word assisted the
continuity of a gesture and that this was an organic process always
tied with words. Their unity allowed for a complete filling of the
content. Maybe this mystery will never be revealed, if we continue
to live with the belief that an ancient dramatic text can survive
on its own. I think that when a word is united with a gesture, tone
and music, only then it radiates its meaning fully. I believe, that
the time has come to resurrect the text of the classical drama in
its full organic form, including the layers of tone, music and gesture.
As the legend tells us, in his fits of anger, a naked Sophocles
walked onto the stage and danced one of the roles in his play being
so furious with the interpretation by one of his actors.
Could you afford such a gesture?
- Our madness is surely leading us this way.
Interviewed
by Janusz R. Kowalczyk
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